Speaker 1 (00:00:07):

James, thanks so much for being with me today. 

Speaker 2 (00:00:19):

My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me on. Yeah, 

Speaker 1 (00:00:21):

I want to, there’s so much I want to cover with you today. You are one passionate human being and I really admire you greatly. I would love to start out with your holistic health journey, starting with probably your diagnosis at the age of 17. Could you share that story with us? 

Speaker 2 (00:00:42):

Sure, yeah. Ah, it’s been a very long twisted journey, but I was always interested in health from a young age. I started doing karate when I was about seven and stayed with that right up until I got my black belt around 14. So I was already training and aware of taking care of my body in that sort of physical fitness way. And then when I was 17, as she was saying, I was diagnosed with leukemia and lymphoma and it was very serious actually. They gave, said I had about six weeks to live if I didn’t start chemotherapy straight away and I did. I went on chemotherapy. I had three years of that one year, quite intense. And then two years of maintenance, which is just once a week versus what I was doing before, which is in the hospital the whole time. And it was really interesting because I’m in the hospital, I was eating McDonald’s in my hospital and while I’m basically dying of cancer and I’m having a really bad time and I was just eating so many foods that now I think about, I’m like wow, it’s amazing that it just really shows a lack of knowledge that the doctors I was under the care of had regarding nutrition. 

Speaker 2 (00:01:59):

They’re very skilled in what they do do, but there’s a huge component lacking in a lot of people about how important nutrition is and what healthy nutrition actually ismple and it can be and it’s just a really fascinating situation. It’s so much confusing, one of the most confusing things to people on earth and it should be the most sin. But anyway, 

Speaker 1 (00:02:21):

Can I interject for a moment? Yeah, please. No, I’m just curious. I’m a Muay Thai practitioner myself and so I know the discipline and the martial arts and the mindset component of martial arts. Did you find that any of that helped you as you were battling this disease? 

Speaker 2 (00:02:42):

Yeah, definitely because after doing seven years of karate and so much, my sensei was a hard ass and he really was a hard ass on me. That was kind of his focus a lot of the time, which was great. But there was a lot of tough times and it hardened me as through I was a soft kind of kid before and it hardened me and made me stronger and made me develop certain qualities that I’m certain helped me through my time of cancer. I had a very positive outlook the whole time and I never thought that despite how close it got a few times that it was actually going to be the end of me. And yeah, I just fought. I fought really hard at times and I’m sure that played a part. 

Speaker 1 (00:03:27):

When they said six weeks, they literally told you you probably had six weeks to live. What was that experience like for you? 

Speaker 2 (00:03:34):

It’s super because I’d been back and forth with test ages cause I started with a little lump under my neck and turned into 13 golf ball sized lumps then under my arms. And so I end up in hospital cause I’m not breathing well cause I sleep in it in the way my breathing and I’m in there doing chin up on the thing there. And pushups, I felt fine actually. And then after being there for about five days on the fifth day after doing some tests, taking one of the lymph nodes out, doing the tests on it, they all came in a whole bunch of them at once. I was like, oh shit. And then they all told me, I was like, man. And my first thought honestly was I’m so glad that I was using the excuse of these lumps to not do my homework. Cause now I really like, I’m so glad I didn’t waste my, 

Speaker 1 (00:04:22):

And 

Speaker 2 (00:04:22):

Then I started thinking, I started thinking that okay, this is actually pretty intense, but I had so much support through that time. It was crazy this, it was a lot to talk about just on that alone of how the community got behind me. My school got behind me and it was a amazing time in a lot of ways. So yeah, there’s so much good that came out of it and that’s what you learn to do as you suffer through life. This experience, you either wallow and pity or you find the good in the situation and use those lessons and whatever else. 

Speaker 1 (00:04:58):

Yeah, no, so few people have that experience under their belt and to really face death at that young of an age, I mean, gosh, I can only imagine how that’s carried through for you and how that’s influenced everything that we’re going to talk a lot about. So yeah. Right. Okay. So you’ve got this diagnosis, you’re going through chemo. Oh yeah. You’re eating Big Max. 

Speaker 2 (00:05:28):

Yeah, exactly, exactly. I’m going through all that. I put on about 20 some, 22, 23 kilos, which is, I think that’s close to 40 pounds, something like that. Super fast blew up. I was always fit in healthy Sean before. And so then once I was able to start training again, which was something that my doctors allowed after I got the tube out of my chest and the tube out of my arm that had been there for months and all this kind of thing, exercise, I was dying. Cause I did not feel like, I was like, who is this? I didn’t recognize myself. I had these huge stretch marks on the side of my body. I still got ’em. They ripped and bled. That’s how fast I put on all this huge amount of weight. All I was doing was eating it in. I couldn’t sleep. I was on all these different medications. 

Speaker 2 (00:06:10):

I went through this kind of thing. I was finally able to start training again. So I’m really trained twice a day, just super into it. There was a personal trainer there who I knew before that I did work experience with before I got sick. He sort of took down his wearing really cool guy and he inspired me to want to become a personal trainer. So then I went and did my personal training course while I’m on chemotherapy. Just the maintenance stuff. But still fairly visibly just going through some shit. And I learned a lot through my personal training course and I became a personal trainer for the next six, seven years or something like that. And during that time I was very lucky. It was a really excellent profession to get into. So I’ve been being very lucrative and it’s a fun, good environment. I was in a excellent gym surrounded by a lot of professionals who’ve been in the health realm for a very long time. 

Speaker 2 (00:07:03):

So I got a lot of different experience around me, a lot of different ideas and things they’ve learned. And I was around some really really interesting people and through this, oh yeah, there was a lot of important lessons learned. One of the things I learned actually, interestingly, that is also you got to remember when you’re learning these things from people remember that humans are biased and not everyone is as wise as they think they’re about things. And I learned a lot of great stuff. But one of the things that I took on board was from a very spiritual guy who was the mentor of the personal trainers there. And he showed me a paper once that said there’s no such thing as a healthy vegetarian. And I was like, cool, okay good. That means I don’t have to look into that. I love eating meat. 

Speaker 2 (00:07:55):

I eat so much meat, I eat ribs for breakfast. I eat lamb for lunch. I ate steak for dinner every day. That was how I was living, trying to get as much protein into me as I can. And a respected persons showed me to sing, you can’t be healthy as a vegetarian. I just went, well I trust you. If you believe that then I’ll just believe that. Boom. And so as I said, I was a personal trainer for seven years. I was teaching people how to eat and how to train and always kind of confused personally. I was always a little confused, am I trying to tell you to eat diet yogurt or lean meat? This sort of seems a bit weird as well. It was actually just a very confusing process. I’m trying to dial people’s diet in. 

Speaker 1 (00:08:38):

Yeah. I’m curious if the nut personal training certification that you took, did they, did that include nutrition or was that strictly physical fitness? 

Speaker 2 (00:08:47):

It included the same ridiculous nutrition guidelines and encouraged the same stuff that everyone gets. And that is really far off the mark, really far off the mark. So yeah, it was very basic level and it was just, can you put a meal plan together? And it was all super, super basic and not accurate A lot of bit, yeah. 

Speaker 1 (00:09:14):

I came myself from personal training as well. I was a personal trainer for a decade. So working in the fitness industry, just that protein culture is just, I mean it’s pervasive in all of society, but especially in the fitness that’s literally they’re saying pack your body with animal protein or you cannot reach your goals. 

Speaker 2 (00:09:36):

And beyond that, people, a lot of people I would say, and I was definitely one of these people, don’t think you can even survive long. You don’t eat meat. And that’s what I’m saying with this article is there’s no such thing as a healthy vegetarian. Most people think not only do you need a lot fit, fitness and health and strong, but even if you’re not into that right, you still need to eat meat, otherwise you are going to, something’s going to happen. I dunno what is protein deficiency or something? Yeah. Just to survive. Just to get by. Yeah, sure. It’s so bad and it’s really sad. It’s really, really sad because there are so many people suffering horribly and dying so young and getting all these diseases and trying so hard to be healthy and doing the advice that they’re told and they’re just simply getting terrible advice. 

Speaker 2 (00:10:22):

Terrible, terrible advice. So many people, this isn’t a small percentage of people we’re talking about that. That’s one thing to be like 5% of people are giving some really bad nutrition advice out there. But no, it’s like the government’s giving out horrible advice and personal trainers are giving out horrible advice and dieticians and nutritionists are giving out horrible advice saying eat this many eggs, eat this type of cheese. You can have these types of animal flesh and it just doesn’t make any sense. These are the things that are causing the diseases that people are dying from. 

Speaker 1 (00:10:52):

So why was it, would you 

Speaker 2 (00:10:52):

Include that in your diet? Why say last sentence? Why would you include that in your diet? When you can have a diet without it that ensures as best you can through diet that you’ll live longer, reduce your chances of developing the top killers. And obviously then all the counters benefits besides the ones for yourself, for the planet and for the earthlings we share this planet with. 

Speaker 1 (00:11:14):

So what was it that turned the corner for you? So you had taken on this belief because the so-called experts were telling you and you said, okay, well the experts are saying it must be true. I’m taking this on. Yeah. Then 

Speaker 2 (00:11:26):

Yeah. And then I ended up working on cruise ships in the health and fitness zone. I was giving lectures, I was learning from a whole new group of people now about people, just different professionals who were coming to teach us how to give the lectures and things like that. And that’s when I started learning a little bit more about the pharmaceutical industry and there’s no money in sick people and just getting new ideas in my head. I’m not saying I’m totally against the pharmaceutical industry or anything, but I’m saying that there are a lot of medications out there that need not exist if people just got better educated about how to actually take care of themselves and didn’t, not only that but didn’t get bad information that is pushing them towards these medications. And I’ve suffered from this myself even up until recently with painkillers. There’s a whole nother story and I wish we had time to talk about it actually. Cause it’s really interesting. I’m just still processing it. But there’s ways to heal that are good for you and there’s things that you can do that you think are going to help you heal that are going to keep you stuck in sickness. 

Speaker 1 (00:12:27):

Well hold that thought I’d like. I really would like to come back to that even if we run over a little bit. 

Speaker 2 (00:12:33):

Yeah, no worries. We can totally do that. I’ll do my best to verbalize the hell I’ve been going through in the last year or so. Okay. So anyway, alright. I work on a cruise ship. I’m meeting a lot of interesting people all the time cause we’re getting 5,000 new passages each week. And I meet this Indian man, he reminds me of Buddha super wise, super chill, super cool. Always just saying all this enlightening stuff. And I’m just chilling with him as much as I can through his cruises coming in, talking to the older man and then one day he says, eating animals is bad karma. And then I give my typical arguments like, nah, no, you need to eat animals to survive. I learned as age ago, I haven’t eaten animals in 20 years or whatever it was. And so then I got intrigued and it was also during a time where I was reading a amazing book called Healing with Whole Foods that the acupuncture to me that was on the cruise ship. 

Speaker 2 (00:13:22):

So I’m skimming through this massive encyclopedia size book and it’s gone through all the diseases that humans commonly get. And it wasn’t a vegan book, it wasn’t a whole food plant-based book. But the answer to all these things was to eat this particular diet without animal products. And I was like, this is just weird. This is weird timing and maybe I should try a little bit of an experiment. I’ll go seven days without eating meat. That’s what I did. And then I felt good. I’m still in the gym and I’m like, I don’t feel any worse. I’ve been eating delicious food, I haven’t really missed meat. I should keep this going. And during this week I’m like, I hope I don’t die during this week. I better study, I better make sure this just possible for even a week. I dunno, just so silly. And so then I get really fascinated by this new way of living and I was actually going through some pretty serious shit as well. 

Speaker 2 (00:14:12):

I was, I had problems from when I was sick, when I had cancer and I told you I was eating so much, so much food. I ended up developing a binge eating issue which led to bulimia and so on this cruise ship, I’m also searching for something that’s going to help me with that. Anything. Cause I was actually really desperate at the time. I was binging and purging, not wanting to struggling just in this bad cycle of craving to continue eating, to continue eating. There was no satisfying. And it was so I’m like, bitch author might help that. So I’m reading it and I’m learning more and more then. And I’m getting really excited because I’m learning, not only is this doable, but this is actually probably a healthier lifestyle for me. And I’m a personal trainer. This is probably a healthier lifestyle to promote to my clients. 

Speaker 2 (00:15:04):

Amazing. How good is this? So glad I’ve got all these years I’ve finally come onto this. I feel like I’ve really uncovered an amazing secret here. If all what I’m reading is true, which is seems very convincing cause I’m reading it from here and from here and from there. I’m so happy right now. I can live without me if it means I’m going to live at much better quality of life. And that’s when I, through all this research, start stumbling onto other people’s reasons for being vegetarian. And the major reason for people not eating meat for a lot of people at least, is not wanting to contribute to the horrific violence that animals are subjected to before in order for them to become products. 

Speaker 2 (00:15:47):

And so yeah, r meat, dairy, eggs, leather, medical testing, just everything, all the ways that they’re I started watching some of the documentaries like the earthlings on how animals are slaughtered foexploited. And it just blew my mind that I’ve ran with the bulls in Spain, I’ve eaten meat my whole life. I’ve gone fishing and not thought anything of it. And then I decided thinking of it all differently, whoa, what was I doing? Why was I putting hooks through these poor animals’ faces? Why was I running with these tormented bulls that later got cut up to death in front of a roaring crowd? What the hell is going on? This world is so weird. And I was just a sleep talk before and then I realized that vegan made sense. Being vegan made sense because being vegetarian is just cutting out one type of animal cruelty that you commonly contribute to. But being vegan is living in a way that cuts it out as far as practically possible. And it’s just a few more additions. There’s eggs and dairy and not running with balls, not going to a ball for not going to a horse racing, trying to get products that aren’t test on animals and basically that’s it. You know, don’t wear leather, you wear different material, vegan leather or something else. And that’s pretty much it. It’s not that things on the list. 

Speaker 1 (00:17:01):

Did you find an answer to that of that question of why? What was the shift? Because oh mate, right. Why did you figure out the 

Speaker 2 (00:17:13):

Why’s such a big question. Well I mean I’m still thinking about the why every single day. Cause it’s really, really tricky. I bounce back and forth between just humans are animals, we’re smart and we’re not smart at the same time. We do really amazing things and we do really, really stupid things and we just have been doing things so long and we are in some bad habits. And habits are hard to break and people struggle with change and it took 400 years for them to abolish human slavery in the usa and that’s a long time. And they were human beings and people still couldn’t see how wrong it was that they were doing what they were doing. So yeah, it’s going to take a while for humans to figure it out with non-human earth things as well. Even though they’re basically the same, they just look different on the outside. 

Speaker 2 (00:18:04):

I bounced from that. This very practical understanding of the slow evolution of humanity to this is very deliberate. Why are they trying to keep people sick? Why are they trying to keep this very low, violent, cruel energy on this earth? Why is this so huge? Why there’s so many whys about what good nutrition is, why there’s so many whys about what happens in the industries, why is it all greenwashed with humane slaughter and free range and all this I get then I go to this whole, this is so corrupt, this is so sadistic, this is so evil side. So I danced back and forth. Yeah. 

Speaker 1 (00:18:47):

One thing I think about sometimes is when, and I was seven when I kind of made that connection I think before a lot of the programming of society had really set in and I kind of figured out what was on my plate and I said, that’s an actual chicken on my plate. And in my child mind I said, well why in the world would I eat that? It just didn’t make sense. Wow. And I think maybe I was an animal in my past life and who knows why that was the case. But one thing I think about is do you think it helped to first see the benefits for you from a health standpoint? And then you were already on this path of, and kind of let some defenses down of, I’m not going to make myself wrong, because you were already on that path and you could kind of open your eyes a little bit to those blind spots. Do you think that could be part of it, 

Speaker 2 (00:19:50):

Ella? I think what you just said is just so important and so a hundred percent true. You called it completely. I had a massive defense down because I was already doing it. So I knew I could do it and I was kind of enjoying it and I was like this is a possibility for me where most people, they will fight you on this issue even though they probably agree with what you’re saying. But something in them is if I don’t fight, but then I don’t change, I’m going to look like a really bad person and I just dunno if I can change. Change is hard. I tried changing things all the time in my life and it doesn’t work. So is it better to fail in this way and how could I fail? And if I try, I should really do it is better to fail or is it better to pretend I don’t get it and fight against it and use whatever little thing I can hold onto to give me this excuse despite how weak that I can’t do that or I don’t agree with that. 

Speaker 2 (00:20:51):

Yeah, you’re so right mate. You’re so right. And I’ve thought about that a lot and I think it’s a really important part thing to remember that I actually often forget, health is such a huge thing for people I did not think you could be healthy doing. And I was in the fitness and health industry for so long trying to learn about nutrition, the common people. I’m in conversations today about it, reading about people who are like, this is just a necessary nutrient for kings. And I’m like, wow, people really still, or another guy who was saying, don’t act like dairy isn’t healthy. And I’m like, mate, they got you good. You are still in there believing all this crap. Yeah, it’s the world we for sure live in. And what you said about the animals, you know, saw a bird on the plate. That’s so cool. 

Speaker 2 (00:21:36):

You were seven, you’re probably into animals in that. I never really was, I was told at a young age, animals are kind of just intelligent plants in a, it was just described to me in this way that I was like, oh, they’re kind of just nothing. Okay, cool. I never had any affinity with animals. And it was only after going vegan because I understood, okay look, I don’t really care about animals but I can see they’re suffering. I’m looking at this slaughter. There’s someone there who is getting their throat caught open and they’re not enjoying it. This is all pretty obvious despite, I maybe don’t think they’re as evolved as humans or intelligent as humans or whatever, but I don’t want to be the reason that happens to them. And it was only later, and this is one of the biggest revelations in my life, it was only later that I realized humans, humans are animals and animals are people. 

Speaker 2 (00:22:33):

They’re their own heart, their own brain. They experience life in a basically identical way that we do. I watch, I hang out with my cats all day long. They get tired, they yawn, they get hungry. They’re like, no mom, they’re talking to you. They’re people in just a little different party. They’re sleeping, they getting touched, they respond to stimuli as we respond to stimuli. They have memories. They know their names. They like everything. Everything. How much more similar could a have been to you? Identical. But people don’t even see it. They see cows you, they see especially chickens and especially fish, which is so beautiful. I live on the ocean, I snorkel, I see them. They’re incredible. They’re so bright, vibrant. They get scared, they get curious. They have people too. And yet people, they don’t even have feelings. And this is a common bullet. Fish don’t have feelings, it doesn’t matter. Of course hooking them through their face doesn’t matter. And that’s where it’s like, come on, this is so illogical that this must have been taught to you, brainwashed you to think this. Cause you never just sort of grew up and saw fish and thought that sounds likely what we’re told that gives us our perspective is reality and we’ve been told a lot of crap. 

Speaker 1 (00:23:46):

Yes, that’s for sure. So you kind of saw the light, you started seeing the world and seeing animals in this different way. Your heart’s opening, you’re getting emotional about this, starting to get angry. You’ve got I’m sure tons of different emotions. What came next for you? Yeah. And what point did you realize that this was something that you needed to share with the world? 

Speaker 2 (00:24:13):

Well, straight away, as soon as I realized we could be vegetarian, I was on my cruise ship. I stopped eating meat that didn’t eat it again. And I’m telling everyone, you got to go vegetarian. Everyone’s like, I saw you with a plate of meat two days ago, a tower of meat. I was like, nah, I’ve learned so much since two days ago. I’m about to blow all your mind. I’m changing the speeches. I was giving the lectures on the cruise ship starting including vegetarianism straight away. I was like, this is amazing. Everyone needs to know this. I can’t believe I’ve just figured this out and the other people dunno this. Wow. 

Speaker 2 (00:24:42):

But then when the animal side of things got involved and I saw the just massive scale of cruelty and soon after getting off the cruise ship, I was still vegetarian, I was still preaching, go vegetarian to my fam. Then I did a VAPA course, which is another thing that Indian man who said eating animals is bad karma. He, he started talking about meditation. I always heard about this course where you meditate 10 hours a day for 10 days, you don’t speak, you’re just there, you meditate. And I did that and some day there I started thinking about how long could you not speak for? I considered maybe imagine if I did a year, imagine doing a year, that’d be so trippy, whatever. And then I thought, actually that is a interesting idea because maybe I could use that in a way to raise awareness for something I care about. And this was a brand new issue for me as of a few months or whatever. But it was already, I can see it was so important and ok wait, so I came 

Speaker 1 (00:25:42):

Out time, time out, time out, time out. 10 hours a day for 10 days. Was this your first introduction into meditation or had you already been meditating? 

Speaker 2 (00:25:52):

So this was when I was 24. I’d already done fair bit of meditation, but mostly got mostly listening to the, I dunno if you know what hollow sync is, it’s sort of like chimes and yeah, it’s just supposed to put your brain in some beat or alpha or whatever ways. It’s just like trippy tunes. And I would meditate to that a lot. I was really into it. I started doing that when I was 17, when I had cancer. But I’d never done to sit without music, without anything. And not really had I done that. But it was interesting cause I used to read a lot of spiritual books around these years and to you could summarize pretty much all of them with the word meditate. I always felt that this book just ly told me the whole book was just so meditate. So it was this one. And so I was always looking forward to kind of doing this thing that one of my friends was a very amazing woman, told me about she do this course one day. She came from straight from it to my place one time and she was glowing. I’m like, oh whatever made you look like this, I’m going to have to do that one day. 

Speaker 1 (00:26:52):

And yeah, what’s that doing 10 hours a day? I’ve never done that. 

Speaker 2 (00:26:57):

I’ve done nine of them now. I’ve done nine of these 10 day courses now. So they’re all very different. But basically you’re learning a very powerful technique of meditations and insight meditation. It’s said to be the gift from the Buddha. This is what he taught people. This was his main teaching. He said a lot of things. But the core of what he gifted the world was a two-part meditation, which is observation of your physical sensations while remaining a economist, which is basically a peace. So you’re not concerned with your thoughts, you’re not concerned with the external. You are keeping a consciousness and observation happening of the physical sensations of your body, the pressure, the tingling, the pain, the itching, the vibrating, whatever. You stay with that sensation and you find pieces of all that. And as you do that, different things come up from your past and you have the opportunity to either resist and push it back down or to observe, feel the the sensation no matter how painful it is. 

Speaker 2 (00:28:02):

And it can be gating or painful, you know, you’d be shocked how much you can go through just sitting there for an hour and then another hour and then another hour. And basically that’s, yeah, it’s an incredible course. I would highly recommend everybody do it. I’ve always said that veganism is for us, but all mainly it’s to end the animal holocaust of trillions of cent beings every single year. That’s the best reason to be vegan and vegan. And the personal meditation is gift to ourselves. It teaches you how to suffer less and how to go through life in a better way. Really, really amazing technique. And most people who go for the 10 days, even if they’ve never meditated before, they finish the course and they finish a course feeling like they left two suitcases of garbage behind with a technique that they can now have and continue to master for the rest of their life. 

Speaker 2 (00:28:56):

You know how to work. You just have to do the work. So it’s phenomenal. I’ve had some of my best at my, I go to this the past and I had the idea to do the valve silence and I started studying more, realizing there were so many more reasons I even realized initially a above health as well as health and the ethics, as the environmental issues, as the world hunger issues. There’s so much climate related issues with the current animal agriculture and how much better things could be plant. It was just everything pointing to this. Everything has covered everything. It’s like, this is such a good reason to not talk through you. I should design cool with my life and so I’m just going to go for it. And I decided planning it just as if I’m going to do it, but still not kind as sure. 

Speaker 2 (00:29:46):

And a lot of people my home is, and my mom and dad, they’re like, we dunno, we should do this a bit extreme. And I was like, no, no. And yeah, I ended up doing a year later to the day. So I started my 1st of January, 2013 I think I was, and then I planned that I became vegan, studied animal rights literature and the arguments and everything like that. January 1st, 2014, I started my vow. I traveled around Australia doing a whole bunch of stuff, just continuing my learning, writing a blog. I went to a lot of factory farms, we did a lot of rescues, we documented a lot of stuff. 

Speaker 2 (00:30:29):

And up cycling across Australia, 5,000 kilometers, my broke down. I, oh, here’s good opportunity to, you can be healthy and strong in a plant-based diet. So I’m traveling across Australia just showing paper, I’m eating my oats and going to this random little petrol station where I’m getting rice and vegetables and some beans or something and just making it work. And then I got back and I, I hadn’t spoke for a year. I spoke for the first time on a TV show. And that interview just before the interview, the day before the interview, I finished, that was my third pass in the course at that time. And in that course I really focused on, what do I want to say when I speak for the first time after a year. So my first words were on this show. I had a vegan message prepared. And that was seen by millions and millions of people. And a lot of people found inspiration in those words and thought about the world differently. And from then I just started giving speeches wherever I was invited. And yeah, what’s happened since then? That was like 15. Yeah. So had you 

Speaker 1 (00:31:40):

Planned out what you were going to say 

Speaker 2 (00:31:43):

When I planned word for word? Word for word what I was going to say. Yeah, exactly. Do you remember? I do. I said, so they said to me, they’re just sitting there. I don’t think they really knew how to interact with me. I’m wearing a shirt that says earthlings.com. I said, okay James, you haven’t spoke for a year. What did he say? He goes, what are your first words going to be? And at the time, I had sort of developed my own sign language thing. So I just mouthed to him, I want you to ask me why. And he understood. He goes, okay James, why did you do this? So my first words, I said, thank you for asking. The reason I took this vow of silence was to raise awareness for the voiceless victims of this planet. The animals, we all say we love animals and we are against animal cruelty, yet we pay people to mutilate and torture and slaughter animals. 

Speaker 2 (00:32:42):

And it’s not for any necessity. It’s not because we need to for our health, it’s because we like the way they taste. So I went voiceless because they’re voiceless, I thought. But then I realized they’re not actually voiceless. They cry in pain, they scream in terror. And when they do that, they’re telling us that they’re suffering. But the problem is we’re not listening because they’re covered in feathers or scales or winds or fur. So we don’t take their suffering seriously. I also took this vow silence to teach people about my lifestyle. I’m a vegan, that means I don’t consume any animal products. I don’t support any animal exploitation. And I wanted to show people through my journey how easy that is, how healthy that is. And that is an excellent way to live your life. 

Speaker 2 (00:33:33):

And yeah, that’s what I said. And then they were like, how does it feel to be speaking? That’s what they responded to my 10 days of meditation speech. And I was expecting to get into a debate. So it was like, how did it feel to be speaking? I go, I dunno. I just started. Feels a bit weird. Wow. Wow. It was cool. But it kicked off a big, it kicked off a big thing. Yeah, it’s amazing. It gave me the opportunity to start doing speeches about the journey. And then I had more videos of one of my speeches reached over 10 million people as well. It inspired a lot of people to go vegan. And that’s the thing, this message, it’s very simple, it’s very practical, it’s very, kids can understand it. They do. I think they understand it better a lot of the time they do. 

Speaker 2 (00:34:22):

It’s really interesting. Less years conditioned. But it’s a very simple message. And really the question isn’t, are vegans right? We have 100% right. It’s obvious we’re right. There’s millions of vegans around the world. We’re all perfectly happy and healthy. Almost every vegan will tell you that being vegan is the best thing they’ve ever done in their life. Where’re eating incredible, amazing, delicious food. We even have vegan alternatives to all animal products from food, meat, milk, eggs to the clothing. We got it all. This is a day and age where being vegan has never been easier. And it really just comes down to, are you willing to give it a try? Are you willing to just see what we’re talking about? Why are you willing to watch what happens to the animals? A lot of people, you wouldn’t be arguing with me if you’d seen this documentary Earth things or dominion. 

Speaker 2 (00:35:17):

You wouldn’t argue with me, but you won’t watch it. Oh no, I don’t like looking at things like that. But you putting it in your mouth, you paying people to do that to animals, they don’t seem like a bit in a very, very serious issue that’s causing horrific suffering of real victims. I like how they taste. I how taste life. Okay, what do I say to this person? You are either ready or not. And it being ready, you can see my own journey. It took many, many years. Some people will never get it. And some people will see a chicken on their plate and be like, wait a minute, that’s an actual bird. I love birds. I always look at birds when they’re flying and I think, oh, they make me so happy. And this bird got their head cut off so that I can eat them when I could have just eaten something else. This is crazy. But you just really can’t pick it with people. People will surprise. And so that’s the thing that there’s got to be being a vegan in this world, ooh, you’ve got to be patient. At least some people. It helps to really develop the pre level of patience and understanding the people because you get real disappointed otherwise 

Speaker 1 (00:36:24):

You get real disapp like to talk with you about that a little bit. I have a feeling maybe subconsciously a lot of people put up this wall not allowing those emotions to be felt, not allowing. And we have to do it. I’m sure you too. I have to do it on a daily basis or else I would go completely insane knowing what somebody’s eating beside me. I have to put up some sort of a wall so people put up that wall because it is so hard to deal with that. The pain of really knowing and connecting with the suffering of trillions and murder of trillions of animals every year. How do you James deal with that? How do you go on being a joyful human being? How do you go on experiencing pleasure in your life and so that you can be a light and help inspire other people? Because we can’t do that if we’re angry and mean and you know what I mean? 

Speaker 2 (00:37:28):

I do know what you mean. And I know from experience, because I’ve been on totally on both sides of this range of feelings for many years. I was very centered in my forgive them for they know not what they do. Don’t blame and shame, inform and explain. Hate the sin, love the sinner. I was very firm at. That was a big part of my teaching to vegans in my speeches, guys advocate like this. And I say almost around a couple of years ago or something. Cause I’ve been a lot of reasonable amount of followers online. I’ve got a lot of people looking up to me as an activist at by this point. And so I’m taking this responsibility seriously. And the more I’m vegan and the more slaughterhouses I go inside and the more debates I get into, the more passionate I get and the more passionate, I don’t even know if it’s the right word, it’s more just serious about it. This is a serious issue. So more, I dunno, something like that. 

Speaker 2 (00:38:35):

I got to a point after being that other way where I was like, I actually don’t feel like it’s right for me to stay so peaceful with people right now. I need to show another side because there is another side inside of me that is extremely frustrated and extremely disappointed and just shocked at everybody that just shocked just, what are my friends and family who are not vegan still? What is their deal? What are they doing? I started just not being able to relate to that anymore. They, they’ve been so many years that I’ve been vegan and I know they’ve been saying all my stuff. I started really sort of struggling with that. At what point are you just not a good person? And I just got to that point where I was like, right, I just need to just tell everyone exactly how I feel. 

Speaker 2 (00:39:26):

And I was extremely honest before I was a lot more chill and always honest about the reality. But this is more directed at people who knew better and weren’t doing better. And I don’t regret it. It was an important part of my journey and it actually did give some people the push they needed, but it’s a numbers game. And overall, I was also pushing people away from me and my message. I was certain people, they were at the right time where they needed to hear something like that. But other people that were hearing me speak in that way and they were just not relating, not feeling encouraged, not feeling welcomed, not feeling like they were given a chance. There’s all types of people paying attention. And I think that what I learned first of all is that that was a really unhealthy mindset for me to have. 

Speaker 2 (00:40:19):

People are doing their best, doing their best. It’s hard to, people are busy. They’ve got so much going on. They’ve got their kids, they got their mortgage, they’ve got their job, they’ve got their stresses, they got their pains, they got their this and that. People got a lot going on and the world can be very intense place. So that’s not an excuse, but I’m just saying it’s good to, the best way I think is still to just remain encouraging and inspiring and trying to help people and be people’s friend rather than sort of shaming them into guilting them into doing this, finding out where are their sticking points, why not feeding? Oh, I don’t really have any recipes. Okay, so you help with recipes or I just, I’ve seen too many things of people saying it’s not healthy. So you try to convince them in that way. 

Speaker 2 (00:41:14):

Find out where people are at, try to get ’em to the next step, to the next step. And that’s just the process. There’s a lot of hurdles people need to get through in their mind. There’s a lot of conditioning that needs to be cut through. What am I going to eat? Will I like the food? Can I afford the food? What is bigger food? What recipes will I make? Will the kids, it will I feel good on this? Is it going to be good for my digestion? I’m an athlete. Will I be, there’s just so many things. And so it takes time to get through all that. But ultimately I think that it’s a much healthier mindset for the as well. I think it’s really important that people doing things in all different ways. So as I said, I don’t regret and habits its effect, but overall this is a marathon, not a sprint. 

Speaker 2 (00:41:58):

The world ain’t go vegan next week, unfortunately. It’s going to take time. And so probably your best bet for your own mental health and to inspire the most amount of vegans is to be this positive, encouraging, welcoming source of education and inspiration and try to be really consistent with that and try to just sort of be everyone’s friend and make people feel comfortable with you and not judged by you. And yeah, I had a lot of success like that before. I had less success with the angry gig approach and moving back to what works worked better for me at least. 

Speaker 1 (00:42:33):

I really appreciate you and your evolution and your willingness to it. It’s like this balance. And I really get it on a personal level of being like, I’m going to speak my truth. This isn’t about me though. This is about the animals. So how do I speak my truth and do the best good for animals while still being authentic, giving people what they need and a little bit of what they want and meeting people with where they are, but realizing the seriousness of the situation and the suffering. There’s just, there’s so much and I don’t think there’s any so right answers. And the fact is you’ve really gone through your life doing the very best you could to fulfill a mission, to fulfill a purpose. What would you say your purpose is if you had to put it into words here in this lifetime now? 

Speaker 2 (00:43:25):

Well, first of all, I think that everything you said is spot on just there. It is a dance. It’s a, everybody’s different how you approach each person and it’s not a cookie cutter. You say this and you say this and you say this, different people are going to be different places, need different messages. So yeah, it’s good to remember that as well. In terms of my purpose, I would say that I am here to be an instrument of truth and peace and love and respect. And I want to ultimately help end the animal holocaust. I want a close laughter houses. I want the animal slavery to become illegal. I want people to realize not just change to vegan meat. I want ’em to realize what we have done, not just every eats vegan meat now because it’s more mentally friendly. No, we should acknowledge the chorus that we’ve inflicted upon other sensing things and realize that personhood and they should be given. 

Speaker 2 (00:44:21):

So this is extremely important for me as somebody who knows what’s going on. Einstein said those who the, what is it? Those who have the benefit of knowing, have the duty to act something like that instead. And yeah, I feel very much called to, I wouldn’t feel, I tried to go back to personal training after my bio science. I thought I’ll just do one year help animals then back to where I can reps with people, helping people get a bit fit. And I tried and I was with one-on-one session and I’m looking at my phone and it’s beep, beep, beep with all these responses from debates, I’m in about veganism. And I just realized how can I, this is so important. Animals need every voice they can get. I know that I can help them. And I know I’m far from the perfect person and a perfect activist, but if it doesn’t matter, whatever, we can all do something. 

Speaker 2 (00:45:21):

And I just tried to use my personal skills that I had employment in direction of animal rights. I’m a speaker, I’m a communicator. I, I’ve been a personal trainer for so long, I can help inspire people to do this, but try to get me to put on a vegan festival or something like something with some organization and all that. I want to be shocking. So someone else does that. And then someone else creates a website and someone else creates the beauty product and someone else does a vegan meat technology and everyone just puts their heads together and we can, I’m making a huge shift in this world. 

Speaker 1 (00:45:54):

That’s amazing. I want to circle this all the way back to holistic health in a moment. But before we do kind of last on this topic, could you talk a little bit, I think people will hear a lot of the people listening, maybe new to your messaging, new to meeting. Could you explain your use of the word holocaust for those people? 

Speaker 2 (00:46:15):

Oh yeah, I should I, you’re right. Because for me it’s a very normal way of describing this because I’ve thought about this for many years and this is just the most accurate language to describe the kind situation. But yeah, I will absolutely do that. It’s the same reason why I use the word enslavement or slavery. It is what it is. A holocaust is a mass murder of innocent things. And there is no larger Holocaust than the animal Holocaust. Some people think you shouldn’t use the term Holocaust because of World War ii. And people think of the Holocaust and what happened there. But there have been many holocausts in the past. There have been many holocausts since, and there’s a current holocaust that’s been happening through all of them. The one that kills the most, the one that is legal, the one that almost every single person is paying for to happen. 

Speaker 2 (00:47:09):

The one where they literally eat the body parts of the Holocaust victims. So when it, it’s interesting, I know people will say, oh, they’ll watch this whole thing. They’ll say, he called a holocaust, and they’ll just get caught on that. And that guy’s crazy, right? So I always find that shocking. It happens all the time. Oh, something to grab onto, he said Holocaust, he must be a crazy vegan when it’s the most accurate definition. And a lot of people, a lot of Jewish people have written about this, different scholars and policy, different people, activists who have also described this as the animal hall. I don’t just make it up, but it’s always interesting when people are so outraged by that word being used, but not outraged by the gas chambers used. In order for people to eat bacon, the animals are forced into gas chambers and they suffocate to death in carbon dioxide. 

Speaker 2 (00:48:08):

Their body burns from the inside out, their eyes burn, they burn on the inside, and then they, they’re thrashing and screaming against the bars, smashing their heads. You’ve never seen suffering like it. And then they eat that and they say, oh, you shouldn’t call it a holocaust. Oh, well, what about the gas changes? That’s pretty similar. They tattoo them. They herd them up, they separate families, they put them through the line and they gas them to death. There’s an amazing book actually on the comparisons if anyone’s interested in this topic. It’s called Eternal TruLink by Charles Patterson. And it talks about how actually got many ideas of how to run the death camps from slaughterhouses, the production line and things like that. There’s a many parallels, easy to research, but it’s a word, guys, if you’re not comfortable calling it a holocaust for whatever reason, because a lot of people think, oh, you are saying that Jews are pigs or something like that. 

Speaker 2 (00:49:03):

No, we’re not. Jews are like, Australians are. Africans are like, we’re all humans. But what we’re saying is pigs are a lot more like humans than you guys probably give them credit for. You think they’re nothing. You think they’re shit. You think they’re garbage idiots and no, they are sentient beings. Intelligent being conscious feeling things. We’re elevating their status. Cause you guys have it in a very bad level to the point where you’re willing to breathe them into existence in a horrific life, multiple cruelties and abuses and rights violations, and then force ’em into gas shame. Just so you can have a tasty snack. You need to elevate how you see animals. And that’s what we’re trying to do here. Just be honest about the reality of what is happening to them and who it has happened to. 

Speaker 1 (00:49:46):

Thank you. Thank you for that. I just got back from our sanctuary we call hogs and kisses farm sanctuary where we have rescued a farm, farm pigs. And to see a 700 pound pig pig go down for a belly rub like any dog. And yeah, it’s 

Speaker 2 (00:50:07):

Cute. 

Speaker 1 (00:50:07):

Thank you for explaining that. I, 

Speaker 2 (00:50:09):

Yeah, I had a really funny guy. Once I, I’ve been with thousands of internet debates. I’ve debated the most ridiculous people wasting so much time. But anyway, one of them was really funny. He said, I’ll go vegan when a cow can play fetch like a dog thinking that’s totally impossible. Cows aren’t like dogs and you’re trying to make this argument. The dogs are heaps better. That’s why we don’t eat dogs, but cows are stupid. And it took two seconds of Googling to find this cow jumping around after this big, big volleyball. Yeah, big beach volleyball and bringing it back and then throwing it again and playing fish. I’m like, welcome to the club night. 

Speaker 1 (00:50:51):

Did he follow through? Did you get to theme through that? 

Speaker 2 (00:50:54):

I doubt it. Yeah. I 

Speaker 1 (00:50:55):

Don’t, yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s pretty funny though. 

Speaker 2 (00:50:58):

But it was still funny. 

Speaker 1 (00:50:59):

That’s funny. Okay, well let’s talk about you now. Let’s kind of full circle this back to your health. What do you eat on a typical day? What are you exercising? And then if you want to share your story, it sounds like a story of resilience around the painkillers and would love to hear about your relationship with food too. Now, since you had that, because a lot of my audience comes from a disordered eating disorder background as well. 

Speaker 2 (00:51:27):

Okay, very interesting. Well, I’d love to talk about that. Firstly, one of the best things I ever did to help me with my eating disorder was to read a book called End Emotional Eating by Dr. Jennifer Tates. It is a book that helps teach you to sit with the feelings of cravings. Or when you’ve eaten and you think, oh, I want to eat just a bit more. You sit with that feeling. It teaches you how to, it’s using cognitive behavior therapy, which is very similar to the personal meditation actually teaching you that these cravings will come and they’ll go. So don’t be afraid. If you’re craving and you want more, that you are just going to feel this way until you eat. Actually, what you will learn through this process of cognitive behavior therapy is that you can sit there with it and it might be uncomfortable for a while, but soon you’ll find more comfort, more comfort, and it won’t bother you anymore. 

Speaker 2 (00:52:16):

And that’s how you can beat these addictions and these cravings. And you can do that with cigarette smoking or whatever. And that was the first best thing I did. And then the day I went vegan was the day that I said, it was also the day that I started my bowel science. And it was also the day that I said I’ll never binge and purge again. So I was already getting better, I was doing it less, but I was still kind of doing it. And I was like, I need to just say no more. This is never good. Just stop this shit. Whatcha are you doing? You know, want to live like this. I already know where this park was taken in. It hasn’t been good. So because I was doing it, cause I just wanted, I couldn’t stop eating. It was a food addiction thing. 

Speaker 2 (00:52:50):

It wasn’t like, oh, I feel a bit fat and it wasn’t me. I was compulsively eating just chronic bji. And then I feel so full that I needed to vomit and if I vomited, then I could eat more. And it was a wild mental space to be in. So that helped me a lot. That book I highly recommend Everyone read does got exercises after each chapter. What happened was that day that I said, I’m not going to ever do this again. I’m not going to binge and throw up my food again. About two weeks into my starting to travel around Australia voiceless, I binged and I ate a type of so good ice cream to soy ice cream with most of the jar of peanut butter. And that’s a really easy thing to vomit back up again. 

Speaker 2 (00:53:36):

Some foods are not so easy. This is a very easy one. So I could have eaten this whole thing and just get rid of it, but I thought, no, that’s exactly what I said I’m not going to do. I made a vow of myself. So too bad. Now you have to sit with how uncomfortable you are going to be with a stomach full of ice cream and peanut butter. I was sitting there, I was like, man, I’m so uncomfortable. Oh God, why did I do that to myself? This is so bad. And I woke up the next morning and I was like, okay, I, I’m happy. I’m not happy how much I ate. That was stupid. But I didn’t binge and purge go me. And then sometime later I binged again. And during my binge I’m like, oh man, I’m going to have to sit with this and I’m going to feel really shit. 

Speaker 2 (00:54:21):

Maybe I’ll just have a little bit less than I would’ve had I not had this thought. And over time I decided, realizing I decided getting more in tune with, am I hungry? Should I eat? How much have I eaten today? Do I really need to eat that? And it was amazing because for so long I had struggled and over time, and also I was vegan, so I’m eating better foods, like I’m eating fruit. I never used to eat food. It was like, no, don’t eat fruit. It’ll make me food on way, and it’s not healthy. Too much sugar. I’m eating now. The best feel for my body. Fruit. So nutritious, so delicious in it’s raw, natural form. It’s so designed for humans to digest. It’s excellent and it gives you that sweet, enjoyable, pleasurable feeling. Eating something like a mango or a banana smoothie or something like that, like grape, and so that being able to eat these foods. I didn’t really care if I ate ice cream anymore. I was having smoothie bowls, blended bananas, blended frozen bananas with blended blueberries, with some crushed cashews and some granola and all this amazing stuff. Why would I want ice cream? 

Speaker 2 (00:55:36):

At least for the sweet tooth side of things, and just this way, you are really satisfying that in a very healthy, enjoyable way. So that started happening and I started eating more starch like potatoes and oats and things that I also were used to think too high in carbs. I won’t eat that. And after going around the world a lot and speaking at a lot of lectures, I had the privilege to be speaking at a lot of lectures, conferences and things like that, while some of the best health professionals, nutritionists and doctors who promote plant-based diet were speaking. So I got to hear certain messages over and over and over again, and then for the first time in my life, finally I understood how to eat what the human body is designed to use for fuel, which was a long process, especially being interested in health for decades. 

Speaker 2 (00:56:27):

By this point, it’s like so many years teaching people, eat this amount of steak, eat this amount of chicken, and took a long time to realize a whole food, plant-based diet is it? And then how to make that enjoyable. What does that mean? What foods will I eat? So often for breakfast, I will have a big bowl of oats with some picas or it’s chocolatey. I’ll put a big thing of peanut butter. I’ll probably chop some strawberries in there. I’ll put some granola on top of something crunchy, something chewy in there like dried cranberries, maybe some protein powder if I’m doing weightlifting at the time, just like a meat eater would, but using a pea protein or a soy protein or something like that. And this is a very affordable meal. It’s extremely cheap to one of the cheapest foods. Very delicious. It’s like having a big bowl of dessert really, and very long-lasting energy. 

Speaker 2 (00:57:26):

Just an excellent start to your date. Then also, I’ll be having smoothie bowls, a bunch of blended fruit. I’ll put my greens in there. A huge amount of kale, you can’t even taste it. Us, this is one of the most important things we can eat. Darkly greens, put it in a smoothie. You still just feel like you’re eating a bowl. Ice cream, basically, but I just got none of the dairy got none of the saturated fat, none of the cholesterol, none of the animal protein, far healthier. Then maybe I’ll have scrambled tofu on toast, for example, so might put a bit of avocado down, scrambled tofu. Just get a block of tofu, crush it in your hands, put some herbs and spices, whatever, mix it up. Even if we did a salt and pepper and a bit of chum or something, that’ll be delicious. Put that on top. 

Speaker 2 (00:58:06):

Very high in protein and lots of different nutrients. It’s a complete protein as well. Put that on your toes. You can have that. You beans on toes, avocado on toast. I don’t know. There’s like million things and throughout the day we’re in Bali, so we get to eat a lot of tofu and Tampa. We have tofu and curries. We have big burritos with black beans and rice and tomato and stuff. Black. Oh, you’re making me hungry. So much. So much. I mean, we have a great variety and in Bali, it’s crazy how much vegan food is here, so can have it all. We have vegan pizzas across the road from our place, and there’s amazing pasts and just basically any food you can think of can be made vegan. You can just substitute the meat for tofu or for actual vegan meat if you somewhere where it exists, which most people are these days. 

Speaker 2 (00:59:02):

Teex and vegetable protein, which is, it’s like a dry type of soy looks like crumbles or bigger chunks, extremely high in protein, extremely low in fat, very, very meaty. You can season it. How you add that to your spaghetti, you can have bags of it in the cupboard waiting for it that you just, that’s what you use for meat now. It’s way cheaper. Stores for ages don’t have to worry about cross-contamination. Boom, take two seconds to learn how to cook that stuff up and then forever. Yeah, so I eat. I eat. Yeah, so stuff. I don’t know. Yeah, no, there’s endless everything. Endless. Exactly. That’s why I don’t talk too much, but I think people are confused. I think vegan food also, I’m going to just, I don’t know what I’m going to eat. I guess I’m just going to eat lettuce and salads and carrots and people got no idea. 

Speaker 2 (00:59:52):

But if you just look up hashtag vegan food on Instagram or something like that, you’ll say, we eat in the craziest food. You never believe huge burgers. You don’t even know people, if they get fed a vegan burger, a vegan meat burger. They don’t know. I’ve done this. I made videos of this myself. Hey, try this. Yeah, it’s vegan. They’re like, no way. That’s vegan. I can’t believe that’s vegan. So that’s where we’re at right now. I’m like to still be choosing the flesh of a tortured animal when we have that there. People just got to do it. Just try it and just see and be like, oh, yeah, no, they’re right. We should do this, and you don’t mean have to go vegan overnight. It’d be great if you did. That’s obviously the best thing you could do, but if you don’t feel like you can, what can you do? 

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):

Maybe you can stop having dairy this week and you can try soil mond or rice or coconut or hazelnut milk instead. Maybe instead of having scrambled eggs, you’ll have scrambled tofu. You’ll just try it for the first time ever. Maybe you’ll make a deal that for this month, every Monday I’m going to be vegan, or maybe you’ll go vegetarian for a while. What? Just choose a thing. Chip away at it if that feels easier for you, which it probably does to most people who are busy and try to keep going, and if you take a step back, it’s all good. People don’t always quit smoking the first time they want to quit smoking. It can be challenging, so just don’t quit too hard on yourself. Don’t think this isn’t for me. It is for you, whoever you are human being, watching this, listening to this. 

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):

This is for you. This is what your body is designed to do. This is what you already believe in because everybody believes in the vegan ethic don’t cause that necessary cruelty to animals, so you are already vegan at heart, everybody. You just not living that way. You just got to align a few little actions with those values and you’ll be a better version of yourself. I’m not saying vegans a better, I’m just saying factually, you’ll feel like a better version of yourself because you’ll know you’ll sit down every meal with enjoyment knowing, man, this is vegan. This is not like we thought. This is not a plate of cruelty. This is a plate of compassion, and as one of my favorite authors said, Dr. Will Tull, who wrote the World Peace Diet, which is a phenomenal book, if you’re only going to read one book on veganism, this should be the one. 

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):

It’s also a audio book, the World Peace Diet. My favorite quotes by him, he said, there’s simply no way to overstate the magnitude of the positive spiritual benefit that we would have if we switch from foods of cruelty and violent, no cruelty and oppression to foods of compassion, inness, there’s no way to overstate the spiritual benefit, and so true you, you’re different person than you figure. You vibe differently. Animals respond. I don’t want to get too weird about it. Maybe animals won’t respond to you differently, but you will feel differently towards them. You’ll feel differently every single time you put a bit of food in your mouth, every day you wake up. You just know I’m doing better than I used to do and quite significantly, and if everybody just did what I was doing, whoa. That would be a massive, massive positive benefit for this world. I’m going to try to inspire as many people as possible on my journey. 

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):

James, you are an inspiration. Thank you for spreading your message. Yeah, thank you for being you. Thank you for your evolution and for sharing that with all of us and for being on the show today. 

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):

Absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for giving the opportunity to talk about it. It is, yeah, very close to my heart as yours. You are doing an amazing job rounding up people like me and inspiring your audience and to your audience, I just want to say peace and love and all the best to you all. I hope that you make some steps on your journey. I hope you vegan very soon and all the benefits that you deserve. 

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):

Amen. 

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):

Amen.